So 47,000 fans saw Mexico draw 1-1 with Panama and we now know that things are still in flux with “El Tri”.
The “Javier Aguirre incident” will now be Gold Cup lore as he ventured out of the coaching box to raise his leg towards an onrushing Panamanian player.
Unwise? You bet? Stupid from your leader? You bet.
So will Concacaf step up here and truly lead by suspending Aguirre for the tournament or will they turn a blind eye based on the strength that Mexico is financially in Concacaf?
In my opinion Concacaf must suspend Aguirre to show that they are leaders!
As a soccer fan what do you think ? And for those fans throwing things on the field…is this acceptable and will Concacaf make a stand?
After all isn’t that just FIFA fair play and doesn’t accountability extend to fans?
By the way the goalscorers were Miguel Sabah for Mexico and Blas Perez Panama.
Will Concacaf be accountable for actions at Mexico/Panama game?
July 10, 2009 26 Comments
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I guess my long comment deserves to be here…
CAUTION: LONG POST…READ AT OWN EXPENSE
I am a Mexican and I love football with a passion. There is a saying, “The Mexican that doesn’t love football is no Mexican,” and I take that to heart. I’ve been a fan all of my life, and this has included the days when the National Team was not show on regular television and one had to go to a bar to see the game in closed circuit television. My earliest memory was my mom telling me to go to sleep during a CONCACAF Championship game and my dad telling her to let me see the trophy presentation, so my earliest football memory was one of glory with my nation. There is an understood agreement among family members and that is that we often insult our own family, but if somebody insults them or criticizes them we protect them. This I have often applied to football, I can insult my team in the worst ways among fellow fans but as soon as somebody else does it that isn’t a fan: it gets personal! However, this shall not be the case this time and I will criticize my team in front of a bunch of no good USMNT Fans (I kid…). Mexico has often been deemed the CONCACAF Powerhouse, but for what reason? We have never won a World Cup, the only reason I can even agree with this is because we have won the Confederation’s Cup and gotten a couple of second place finishes in Copa America. I guess if you go by history and are forced to name a powerhouse it would be Mexico, but let’s be honest there are no “powerhouses” in CONCACAF. I went to the game yesterday sat on the field level, around the half way line, and behind the Mexican Bench. Mexico started off playing well, I cannot say that they played amazing football but they started off well considering recent games. In the ninth minute Giovanni Dos Santos made a beautiful pass and Sabbah scored. After those initial nine minutes however the Mexico of recent times returned and worse than ever. Panama had us (Mexico, you know us fans we feel a part of the team) against the ropes, it seemed like Blas Perez (Ex-Pachuca) was going to get a nice cross in any given moment and score a goal against us. Four minutes after the goal Blas Perez crashes against Goalkeeper Ochoa in what seemed like an aggression worthy of at least a yellow card. The Referee being from CONCACAF does nothing, and so the game starts getting ugly. I remember telling myself the Ref should have done something because now Mexico is going to take things to their own hands. As soon as I said thought that Torrado (Mexican Captain) slides in pretty hard against Blas Perez in a move that could’ve been worth of a red. He however had gotten carded before and the Referee being from CONCACAF didn’t have the personality or attitude to give him at least a second yellow if not a red. Later, my other thought of Blas Perez receiving a nice a pass and scoring came to be, and he scored a goal that Ochoa (GK) could’ve easily handled considering the ball bounced twice in the 5 yard box. The game seemed to have calmed down after that however. Panama kept on attacking and Mexico kept on defending, in the 45th minute a fight broke out in the field after a foul and Noriega from Mexico goes to the showers along with Gun from Panama. After that I knew it would be a horrible performance for Mexico, because I had a feeling Panama would try to defend the 1-1 draw and oh boy was I right. In the second half Mexico tried attacking but Panama just defended. All of this seemed to frustrate Aguirre, Mexico’s Head Coach, and I understood why Mexico had turned into a one trick pony. Every single play took place with Medina on the left side of the field; of course the Panama team could see this too so they just defended that side a little tighter, and it worked like a charm. Aguirre a good 15-20 minutes of seeing this subbed out Medina and put in Barrera, that young player brought in some new ideas and stopped crossing the ball and instead actually confronted defenders and made some pretty dangerous plays. However, Mexico lacking any real strikers couldn’t even put the ball in. All of this led to the incident with Mexico’s Head Coach in around the 80th minute, Phillips from Panama had lost a ball that had gone outside. Mexico’s Coach Aguirre says that he meant no harm by it, but he extended his leg and it grazed Philips. Now Aguirre said that he was merely trying to stop the ball because it had gone out of bounds, which is something that we see players and coaches do all the time. I do not buy this though, because I as a Pachuca fan know Aguirre better than any other type of fan in the world. Aguirre led Pachuca to their first championship in 1999 and to the final in 2001 which led him to get the Head Coach position for Mexico in his first run. As Pachuca’s coach he had a temper that few others have had. He’ll curse during interviews, he’ll curse at players, and well anybody that he feels like. As a player for America he was often in fights (or so I’ve heard) so none of this surprises me. Aguirre received a red card and left the field after a short while, however the Philips, the Panama player, had also received a red card for pushing Aguirre after the leg extension/kick. While I was in the crowd, the crowd was getting restless because it took the referee 10 minutes to get the player out of the field. After the first seven minutes people started throwing things at Panama’s players and into the field, and this only seemed to make the Panama players argue that the game should be stopped, which in turn angered the fans around me and they threw more stuff into the field. It was a horrifying loop that went on for ten minutes. The game got restarted but the damage had been done the Mexican and Panama Teams were clearly not even in formation anymore and the Panama team really only cared about having the game end in a 1-1 draw. Every player wearing a Panama jersey was defending and as football goes a foul was committed. Omar Bravo kind of pushed Blas Perez but not a hard push, but Perez threw himself to the ground and just stayed there. Perez asked for assistance and so it was given, he was carried out on the stretcher. The fans felt that and knew that he was just trying to break the rhythm of the game so more cups full of coke and beer and God only knows what else were thrown at Blas Perez while he was on the stretcher and right in front of me I saw the Paramedics drop him from the stretcher after getting hit by coke and beer. All of this led to another 5 minutes of wasted time and more arguing from the Panamanian players in support of the game getting ended. The crowd again grew restless and fights started breaking out around me between Panama and Mexican supporters. The game was restarted and ended after around 3 or 4 minutes, and the full time was clearly not aggregated. If I had to put blame on a single person it would be the referee for not being able to control the game, but the fans in the stands that decided to take the side of violence also did not help the cause. Mexico showed a weakness that has been apparent for years: if a team goes against Mexico and plays counter-attack football Mexico will lose or go against the ropes. Mexico cannot score when other teams decide to all out defend. Aguirre also showed his weakness as a coach and now I know why he was fired from Atletico Madrid; he played a 4-4-2 against a team playing a 4-4-2. Mexico has the talent to play any formation and with the players on the field a 5-3-2 would have worked perfect. This would’ve allowed two defenders to help out the midfield and thus overwhelming the Panamanian midfield, which would’ve led to more balls won. Giovanni was playing a good game, the only one that did well, and he could’ve gotten just a little behind the two forwards and played as a loose “10” ala Donovan. It seems like a simple solution that would not work because a mere fan is stating it, but trust me it would’ve! As a long time football fan I know that a 4-4-2 going against a 4-4-2 makes for some pretty clogged up midfields with nobody gaining much ground. Come August 12th and remembering my shaved head bet, I still have not lost hope and I still believe that the USMNT will not beat Mexico on the holiest of grounds, El Estadio Azteca! I guess I am but a hopeless soul that will never learn.
I have the feeling that he’ll only get a slap on the wrist.
Maybe Concacaf will order USA vs. Mexico at Estadio Azteca be played to a empty stadium… you think?
i was at the game also and i was behind the players section and im sorry but aguirre does not deserve a sespension he is not a classless guy if it was ramirez i could understand he was jus trying to stop the ball..yes he made contact but the panama player took it too far by pushing him.. The ref lets this game go way out of hand when blas perez hits a defenseless ochoa in the air he busted a derek fisher on the boy.. but in the end everyone deserves blame you cant just pin point at aguirre.. panama players mexico players fans refs.
Anthony,
Aguirre is the leader of Mexico and made a mistake.
He was outside of the coaching box and no matter how you interpret his actions he put himself at risk for what happened.
When you are trying to prove to your team in football that emotional control is relevant to results and the greater good you can’t make this mistake.
The easy way out is to blame all, it all broke loose with Aguirre’s actions. He is a man that is trying to restore the Mexican soccer culture at the national team level.
On the note of protecting the family, isn’t it essential to be accountable as a family? Is admitting mistakes and being accountable a part of building a stronger family or team?
Well Leo, you did warn us it would be long. I thought the ref let the game get away from him early. There were some very rough tackles (not violent, but rough) that should have been blown in no small part because it was early. By the time the keeper got plowed it was over. That HAD to be a card. If I’m running the game it’s a red and I’ve been a ref and a keeper for many years.
It’s sad to see the Mexican side go down. I’ve enjoyed the compitition since I was a kid playing with the Mexican laborers in Texas. They taught me the game and except when they play the USNT I’m a fan. But in truth, they are poorly organized in the pitch and poorly lead off it.
The passion of the Mexican fan is world renown and now sadly will go hand in hand with the English Hooligans. I would Love to go to Mexico City in Aug to see the yanks finaly come away with a win there but I would want to take my daughter and I’m afraid the passion for the game might spill over too far.
Now that’s a shame.
It takes two to tango and last night there was nobody without blame.
I’ve seen lots of postings on this matter, and I’m tired of the implication that “passion” and “hooliganism” are synonymous. I’m as passionate as anybody, but I’m not a hooligan. The Mexican fans are developing a really, REALLY bad reputation.
I dont care if you were at the game. Watch the replays. He put his leg high up in the air even tho the ball was on the ground the whole time. He also started moving well before the ball crossed out of bounds. What Aguirre did is classless and dangerous and he should be banned for a least 2 qualifiers.
I’ll give Aguirre credit for this. He did leave the field relatively quickly and apologized for his actions. That has to account for something. For him, a 1 or 2 match suspension seems just. Though, Phillips isn’t innocent either. He should be suspended as well. A lot of people embarrassed themselves last night. How would I do it?
Aguirre: 2 match suspension
Phillips: 2 match suspension- while he didn’t start the incident, his reaction and his overall conduct certainly contributed to it.
Blas Perez: 1 match suspension- technically, he wasn’t carded for knocking over Ochoa. But, that’s an automatic yellow and usually a red. He was reckless and ambandoned his body. That sort of thing can lead to serious injuries to oneself or to other players.
Of course, since this is CONCACAF, little or nothing will come of it. Hopefully there will be suspensions but I have the feeling that the only ones who miss a match are those who got red cards and that will be no further punishment. This was a shame for everyone involved. A lot of people on both sides embarrassed themselves and their countries.
A lot has also been written about the fans (rightly so I should add). But we should remember that out of 47,000 people, most were well-behaved. Its lamentable that a relative few fools have to ruin these sorts of things for everyone. More/Better security is needed next time. These incidents simply can’t continue to go on.
Check out the pictures, that is all you need to know
http://l.yimg.com/a/p/sp/tools/med/2009/07/ipt/1247213676.jpg
http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_sow_experts__1/ept_sports_sow_experts-205156356-1247213894.jpg?ymG1IjBDNMhvIxg2
http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_sow_experts__1/ept_sports_sow_experts-205156356-1247213894.jpg?ymG1IjBDNMhvIxg2
Aguirre’s conduct was inexcusable. His excuse that he was going for the ball is laughable. I’ve watched that replay a dozen times and there is no doubt that he is not going for the ball AT ALL. His foot lands in the player’s stomach and is never close to the ball as it travels along the ground. This type of intentional act costs coaches their career (e.g. Woody Hayes) and should cost Aguirre his. Suspension for the tournament isn’t nearly enough. This guy brings our city, his nation and the sport of soccer into disrepute.
Great point on a few fans who through their actions paint everyone with the same brush.
Aguirre apologized quickly because he knew it was out of line…Kudos to Memo Ochoa…..!
2 qualifiers are you serious.. if mexico makes it the final you are asking for a total of six game suspension. if thats the case then he should of flat out dropped kicked his ass.. Aguirre messed up 1st by leaving the coach box straight red card there is deserved. but you are blowing this way out of proportion ive seen on tv and live u can tell what his intentions are.. 1 game suspension 2 at most.. this by no way is comparable to what chilavert did..benitez did to bofo.. or scholari did or even Ramirez
Aguirre:
“I want to apologize to everyone, because I was not on my best behavior for two or three minutes. I tried to stop a dead ball, and there was contact with the player, because of his inertia and me holding my leg up high to stop the ball. I came out of my technical area, and for that I was ejected. It was a bad decision on my part. This is a sincere apology. It was a product of my passion for the game. I had had it with Panama’s time-wasting tactics.”
The above comment is utter nonsense. Inertia? Please. What inertia? The inertia of his leg heading into the air to stop a ball that was rolling on the ground? His talk about passion is pretty much an admission that what he did was entirely intentional.
This whole thing of “passion” sure seems to get used a lot by Mexico fans to explain away bad behavior. The appropriate length of suspension for his actions would be the remainder of the tournament. Some might say, “Well the player pushed Aguirre after his inertial bout of passion. What about him?” I would suspend the player for the remainder of the tournament as well and maybe for his next non friendly international game since Panama won’t advance in the Gold Cup. Aguirre has no business touching anyone on the field and what he did was no accident. I don’t think he intended to hurt the guy but he should have no physical involvement with a player from the opposing team and thus his punishment should be harsh.
Mexico’s own federation should consider some kind of punishment as well, but the chances of that happening are absolutely zero. Likely, Aguirre will not be held accountable for stupidity with intent.
The Mexican Federation is going to fine Aguirre for those of you wondering. Aguirre will be the first Mexican Head Coach under the new FMF rules to get fined by the federation.
I have thought over the amount of suspension for Aguirre and have come to the conclusion suspension for the remainder of the tourney is not harsh enough. Remainder of the tourney plus the next two non friendly matches for Mexico. I think if CONCACAF does not act in a proper manner in dealing a suspension, FIFA should step in and make it clear coaches physically involving themselves in matches is a recipe for disaster and cannot be tolerated.
Leo, I am glad you were able to make it to the game. It was indeed a memorable night, even if some of it was ugly on and off the field.
Intent or not, Aguirre should get a suspension but two games seems fair enough. At the Press Conference it was Panama’s Gary Stempel that was the more agitated and Aguirre was actually quite calm, yes he apologized for his actions but did anyone really expect him to say anything else?
As for the conduct of the Fans, there were plenty that could not control themselves and that is a shame but by no means should anyone paint all “El Tri” Fans with the same brush. I spoke to plenty of level headed Fans and they gave me their honest assesment of where they though “El Tri” stood and where it is headed. Unfortunately all of the shenanigans of the second game overshadowed another solid performance by Guadaloupe, if they were actually permitted to qualify out of CONCACAF they would make some noise.
If you want another taste of the International Game, El Salvador will take on Colombia at Robertson Stadium in August. Come out and watch some teams trying to prepare themselves for the final run at WC Qualifying.
CONCACAF will do little about this, they never do anything material, especially something that could possibly jeopardize Mexico qualifying for South Africa.
I posted a few times today on Bernardo Fallas’ blog and the point is that all of the lack of class, sportsmanship, and reasonable decorum by El Tri and their supporters is almost expected now. None of what happened during the game or in the stands should be a surprise.
It will be interesting to see if Mexico can pull itself out of this, a loss, and it would be an upset of sorts, to the US at Azteca could put them in a tailspin.
Very embarrassing for everyone. The Gold Cup should be embarrassed for the officiating that was put forth in the game. The Mexican team should be embarrassed for their performance against Panama and a coach that showed no class and lack of composure. Fans in Houston should be embarrassed for throwing stuff on the field and fights breaking out in the stands.
You just need to get a big firehouse and clean this up. Awful all around.
Aguirre initiated contact with a player and that is unacceptable, regardless of what he was trying to do or what ensued.
“I would like to apologize in order of the Mexican fans, the Mexican team, the Mexican press, everyone involved with the Mexican national team, to the officials and workers because (Thursday) I didn’t have very good conduct,” said Aguirre.
Wow. How bout apologizing to Phillips, Panama, and all the rest of CONCACAF fans that used-to root for Mexico and now are just disgusted with them.
So this is what it looks like when the ref lets the game get out of hand.
I’m surprised no one has mentioned that at the time of Aguirre’s “indescression” the ball was still in play. It had not crossed completely over the line. Not that it changes anything, it just makes it just that much more egregious an error in my book.
That must be a world record for longest paragraph Leo.
wish I could read it but I go cross-eyed.
The body slam on Ochoa should have been a red card. He was in a vulnerable position (hanging from the cross bar) the guy needlessly slammed him.
The Mexican crowd was awesome. Everybody joins-in – a lot more fun than the typical crowd in the US.
Quite a few people got drunk and stupid in the stands, a small number were stupid to begin with.
Of the 47,000+ in attendance, more than 47,000 had no part in the bad behavior. Most of those people were not shown on television. Just wanted to point that out since some of the reporting seems to leave the impression of a general melee of hooliganism; not the case.
I kind of think that hooliganism has quite a bit to do with alcoholism.
As a marketing entity, CONCACAF is a second rate operation. Judging from everything I see, from a cheap and nearly worthless “game day” program filled with errors and out-dated photos – to a dys/non-functional website slapped together somebody’s cousin. The term “Ill-concieved” comes into my mind. Some critical thinking could help.
Curse those awful plastic horns!
We\’ve been seeing this crap ever since the US/Mexico match in Korea in 2002. It’s getting worse and worse, and at this point, I expect nothing else from the Mexican squad than these kinds of tantrums. They are done in Concacaf, and they are done in the World Cup. The US has passed them, never to look back. El Tri can’t handle that. Yawn. I stopped caring about their anger or their plight in about 2007.
Starting today I will stop attending Dynamo games, I have been a season ticket holder since day 1, but I don’t think we should stand side to side with people that can’t differentiate between a soccer game and politics and their racial hatred, after reading so many comments from peopla that certainly want to make this more than a soccer thing I will abandon the Dynamo and try to convince as many hispanic fans as possible to top attending, we support and support and support, we don’t see colors, we just see fellow Dynamo fans, apparently this is not the norm.
Aguirre is a dummy and deserves something big regarding his punishment, CONCACAF is a joke and the referee deserves also some kind of punishment, but that does not excuse the comments of so many fake soccer fans.