Forgive me Americanistas and lovers of the “goats”. Your teams are struggling in the Mexican Football League.
Now one can quickly look at the goals these clubs are leaking at the moment but are there deeper problems at these institutions? Is it coaching, player performance or selection?
Or in the case of Chivas is it clearly that Masa Rodriguez and Omar Bravo have not been replaced effectively?
Both these teams in group 2 are laboring with America in last place:
Chivas: 1 win, 4 draws, 2 losses
Club America: 1 win, 3 draws and 3 losses
CA produced an opening 3-2 win to the 2008 Apertura but that day revealed alot about this team. It just isn’t that good…..in fact it is average at best. CA has not won in 6 games as they head to San Luis while Chivas goes to always difficult Pachuca in their next game . Trying times for Mexico’s two biggest teams who by the way…….meet in what is being billed as a “Superclasico” exhibition in Chicago this Thursday. Please……..this is purely about money. I say make it a game that counts in the Mexican league standings in the future. Of course that won’t happen because it would cheat the fans in Mexico.
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I am always happy to see either of those two teams struggle….agree 100% with you any time mexican clubs or the national team plays Friendlies in the states it is to drain the pockets of the mexicans working here.
go dynamo!!!!
CA has been poorly run for a long time. Coaches and expensive foreign players go in and out of that organization like busboys in a restaurant. You can’t be successful without some semblance of continuity.
Statistically they seem to both be struggling the same, but on the pitch and player by player America’s having the worst time of both. You must remember that Chivas can only get players which are born in Mexico. That automatically burns out a few options. America can at any time go and purchase any international star…and they have…
If you look at the past 3 years America has been on the decline and still are. I believe they haven’t hit rock bottom.
On the other side, Chivas was the 1st place all throughout the tournament last year and only to lose in the playoffs, the year before that they wont the Cup, the year before that, they eliminated America in the Semis…therefore, there are two completely different sides of this story.
On one side Chivas is on a temporary slump because it’s been ripped apart many times…the players that are there to replace the ones sold away didn’t have time to mature and maybe that’s the problem. But it’s just a matter of time.
America on the other side has one of the poorest reserve production. The usually just buy off what they need and give no chance to their young guns…which doesn’t give them time to mature either and when they’re given the chance, it’s quickly taken away by the next big time signing….
Much deeper problem in America that’s for sure…they have spent millions before this tournament…while Chivas made a few millions selling two or three players in the offseason…(with the exception of Bravo)
Let’s put it this way…these are players that have left Chivas in the last three years or so:
Oswaldo Sanchez
Diego Martinez
Adolfo Bautista
Juan Pablo Rodriguez
Omar Bravo
Masa Rodriguez
and to top it off they lost their goalkeeper right before the start of the season…
Chivas barelu held on to first place last season. Cruz Azul only had to win their final game against a nonplayoff club. Cruz Azul (The other CA) has lost just as many vets (Kikkin, Delgado, Perez pereya, Borghetti) as Chivas has listed above or the Aguilas in Blanco, Klebber, Lopez, Pardo). The difference is La Maquina replaced them with suitable replacements and the others did NOT (Cabanas will never be much). Unless someone finds a way to match Cruz Azul’s desire they will continue to pull out wins and ties at the end of games. Talent has to be balanced with heart. The superclasico clubs are lacking in both.
Bart1 – while it’s true la maquina, and America lost players, and as you’re saying they did replace them and Chivas didn’t there are two things you’re forgetting.
1. – Chivas can only buy mexican born players…and choose to grow their own from the reserve divisions…which on its own deserves more merit than just buying what you need.
2. The players you listed left from CA and America because they were on their way out performance wise (with the exception of Pardo). Blanco was deemed done by America and came back and showed them in MLS that he’s still had it…and trust me…they do miss him. But at the time everyone including America gave up on him.
Kikin – has done nothing with Tigres shouldn’t even be a starter
Delgado – got sent to Lyon and has hardly even played 0 goals in 7 subbed in games.
Perez – Just like Blanco was sent away and got a 2nd Wind while in Tigres – But he has not been any close to being a star either.
Pereyra – has gone to two different teams and gets injured a lot – same reason why he was let go by CA
Borghetti – should I even say anything? he’s done
Klebber and Lopez – Klebber never excelled under the America spotlight as didn’t Lopez that’s why they’re both gone..
See the type of players (quality and youth) Chivas lost could not compare to the ones CA and America lost.
The players Chivas lost are on the rise and were sold for great amounts of money where most of the players you listed left nothing for their teams financially and on the pitch.
All the Chivas players are stars of their new teams while most of the ones you listed are not even performing well anymore…
Yes Im a Chivas fan but the facts are there and can be seen by anyone.
Moises, How did Cruz Azul win so much with all those washed up guys then? And I noticed you never mentioned the “heart” factor. How many games this season have they won (or tied in the Chivas game)late? It’s not like they have a bunch of imported players there either. They are winning like the Dynamo win, with depth and desire. Look how many players have scored for them. the only competition for them in this division is Pumas.
i think its bad when these two teams struggle well at least for mexican soccer.. AMERICA though to me has the worst situation or less understandable because they can go and buy players from other countries and they have.. and coach after coach the team just doesnt respond and its bust after bust worse than david carr..
however chivas only can buy from the mexican born players and puts their faith on the youngsters like omar arellano..gauchito avila..tepa solis.. but i think the owner jorge vergara is just a bum who uses that as an excuse not to waist money..
what chivas should is go out and get NERY CASTILLO!!
Bart – Cruz Azul’s last Mexican division Championship won was back in 1997, then in 2001 or 02 were runners up in the Libertadores…
Is that what you call winning? Yes last year they made it to the final but what about everything between 01 and 08??? most notable were a semifinal in 2006 where they lost to …..
Oh yes Chivas…
If you’re referring to the current status of Cruz Azul then yes…I agree with you that this team has heart, desire and enough younsters and veteran international players to be the great team they are right now…
I thnk it has to do with Markarian bringing in a disciplined mentality and then handing it over to el Profe Galindo to add the heart, desire and love for beautiful soccer Galindo always showed as a player…
But we got off the point here…the talk was about how bad Chivas and America were doing…not about how good Cruz Azul is…
to Johhny….I think Nery is a big prospect for Chivas…he should’ve taken the money Vergara offered 6 months ago…and I bet after the deal with Betis fell apart he’ll be ready to sign with Chivas…
But honestly he doesn’t fit the Chivas mentality…He’ll sell lots of jerseys but would be a cancer in the locker room…
chivas is pretty much run by a businessman who cares very little about the product that he puts on the field and he can get away with it for one reason, chivas fans don’t care, don’t get me wrong, they have the best youth development system in mexico, but they develop players, then sell them at their prime, they have had the talent to build a very strong team, but they decide to sell their best players and keep bringing new ones, chivas fans won’t call the owner on this cuz they’re too loyal, they’re so loyal that they are blind to the fact that they just keep bringing up great players but never keeping them, it’s a business first, soccer second system with chivas, they are a brand not a soccer team, i have a few friends who are very loyal chivas fans, and it is amazing the level of blinded loyalty they have for their team, the fans keep going to the games, they keep buying the jerseys, so the owner does not have to worry about the quality on the field, his pockets are full either way. now america on the ohter hand, has a problem of signing aging players from argentina who at one point of their careers were good, not anymore, maybe ensua is the exception, but one thing is true about america, year in and year out, they spend millions to put what they believe is quality players on the pitch, and like chivas, their fans also are very loyal, and will continue to go to the games no matter how bad the team is, yet they decide to try to improve the team, in the long run, hopefully chivas fans will call out the owner for his actions because chivas has the ability to build a great team, if only they didn’t sell their players.
So if I am hearing you right , both of these clubs are more concerned about being a brand than winning titles. Maybe the fans should demand more on field performance. Maybe they have allowed both of the managment groups of these clubs to get “comfortable”.
For America it is when in doubt, go sign an Argentine, any Argentine.
Coaching choices and player selection has been a nightmare…..As far as Chivas only using Mexican players and that being a disadvantage….That is their choice. You can’t have it both ways.
Their policies differ but of the two I only see Chivas climbing out of this one .
yes, i think both teams are comfortable with being a brand than being good, and yes, i totally agree with you on the Mexican player rule chivas chooses to apply on themselves, it’s their lost, and at this point, i think it’s more of a gimmic than actual pride, there’s no pride in losing, and there’s no pride in selling your good players all the time and not forming a nucleous of good players. But once again, some fault has to be with their fans not calling them out for it, specially chivas, america at least goes out and buys players. But if chivas fans stop going to the games, stop buying all kinds of chivas brand stuff that comes out (there are chivas jeans, tequila, energy drinks, you name it, they make it) honestly, if i were a chivas fans, i’d be insutled by the ownership not carrying about the product ON THE FIELD, only the producs on the shelf.
oh and i just noticed, my grammar is horrible, apologies to all, i suck at multitasking.
im a chivas fan but im more than glad to see players like omar Bravo and salcido and masa go to europe.. however the owner should help by bringing in some experienced players to help fill those holes and not put all the pressure on the youngsters..maybe one or two but u cant ask 7 rookies to be the leaders of the team..u need a balance and chivas does not have that.
chivas needs a fernando arce..a bofo..Cacho.. but i mean its up to the owner not me..